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Novakid physiology(open for discussion)

Discussion in 'Unofficial Lore Discussion' started by Khaltor, May 2, 2016.

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Novakid: breathing and metabolism?

  1. must eat & breathe

    20.0%
  2. must eat but not breathe

    40.0%
  3. must breathe but not eat

    10.9%
  4. removing eating and breathing makes sense

    29.1%
  1. Awe

    Awe Gotta go fast!

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    Magic.
     
  2. Yotan

    Yotan New Member

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    @ Sermane

    CF doesn't touch on the caloric intake of the Novakid but Bietol the race creators does, here.
     
  3. Alaystus

    Alaystus Resident Art Bum
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    Welp. Everone's been going ham on this, and I... Well. I couldn't be bothered to read an ENTIRE PAGE of debate on this. I'm not going to quote or discredit or argue with anyone, and what I say may have been already stated, but what I'm about to put down is how I've interpreted Novakid phisiology.

    Firstly, a Novakid's membrane is similar in function and texture to a cell's membrane; semi-permeable and somewhat malleable, kinda squishy in a way that's similar to flesh. The membrane is held together by an electromagnetic charge, controlled by and centered in the brand; the brand holds an enormous amount of electromagnetic energy that slowly dissipates throughout the Novakid's life.

    Novakids run on combustion, meaning they require fuel in order to function. Fuel can be obtained by ingesting organic products, possibly very few inorganic products, and alternatively breathing oxygen*. Consuming certain inorganic products such as metals, rocks, glass, or any other non-combustible substance is not in any way a source of fuel, and causes a buildup of "slag" or waste debris that can collect in a Novakid's extremities (eg. hands, feet, face) if it is not excreted in a timely fashion. Slag removal is possible, but time consuming and in some cases painful; the act is comparable to shaving, or the forceful removal of acne.

    *Breathing oxygen, however, is not a necessity for a Novakid, as fuel can be obtained in other forms (eg. breathing other combustible gasses, eating food, I just talked about this people.) While on a planet with oxygen, Novakids would require a considerably lower fuel intake than on a planet with no atmosphere. However, with that in mind, a well-fed Novakid could in theory take a short few-hour-long moon walk, if they so chose to. That being said, it is not feasible for a Novakid to live on a planet without access to oxygen. The required fuel intake would be too great to live comfortably or practically.

    Back to the membrane. Novakids have no distinguished physical features, other than a head, torso, abdomen, and limbs; no facial features, no deviantart rule 34. Any other limbs, features, tails, or ears would be considered Body Modification/Mutilation, and would require an enormous amount of time and effort; it is likely irreversible in any way besides amputation. (Not to mention that pushing out from the inside of your membrane, the thing that holds your plasma in, is totally fucking dangerous.)

    If beaten/battered enough, the membrane will grow weaker and thinner to the point that the Novakid will begin to "bleed". Wounds that would be considered "bruises" to humans would likely be to a Novakid a weakened membrane and a very minor plasma emission; it would only be enough to singe a small hole in a piece of clothing, or give a tiny burn to an organic substance (eg. fist, foot, head, I'm sure you're all creative).

    If a Novakid's membrane is pierced, the best thing to do is apply pressure to the wound with something that has an electromagnetic charge, for example a Novakid's hand, either their own or another's. In theory, special bandages could be fashioned for Novakids, like flexible polarized metal strips. Whatever the hell those nanowrap bandages are. Things like that.

    Novakids can't run forever. Their biggest weakness is their exhaustion. Physical combat between a Novakid and an organic life form is in almost every way unbalanced; they have no bones, they don't breathe, and their blood is practically fire. The best option is to outlast them with endurance, until they become sluggish in movements and eventually retire. The only other option is to render the Novakid unconscious, either by blunt force trauma to the brand with something hard (like brass knuckles or a bat), or by means of electrocution (like a taser).

    Back to the membrane part 2. I've heard of some people claiming that Novakids' limbs can grow back. Well, sorry to burst your bubble, but that's not real. Something of that caliber would, again, fall under Body Modification/Mutilation, and would take an enormous amount of time and effort; not to mention the "regrown" limb likely wouldn't function as well as the old one (and would also probably look deformed).

    And that's about all I got for now, or could think of at the time. At some point, about halfway through, it got a little sloppy. Sorry. Anyway. There you go.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Khaltor

    Khaltor Lore Master

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    Going to start work on the second draft. I'll try to elaborate more on how I see the Novakid work, regarding their regeneration, lifespan, etc...
     
  5. Khaltor

    Khaltor Lore Master

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    That's assuming they /do/ run on combustion. Considering they probably do not need to breathe, they probably don't metabolise and they probably don't lose enough energy that requires them to "refuel" by absorbing more plasma. If they were to eat regular food, the potential energy gained by caloric intake would not be sufficient, at all.

    I believe the shell is a good insulator for warmth and radiation, thus the amount of "energy" the Novakid lose over time is so gradual that it only works as their natural aging process and as such is to be neglegible in RP anyway. The only thing one should keep in mind is that a Novakid should take care not to get wounded too badly, to the point where they die horribly. Other than that they have an incredible amount of energy stored up, so they can get wounded /a lot/, before running out of energy. (However losing a lot of plasma at once makes them either lose consciousness or if it's REALLY severe, die from shock.)

    The brand holds an equal, yet opposite charge of the plasma within a Novakid.
    Throughout its lifespan, a Novakid loses energy in its brand, which will cause it to convert some plasma into electrical energy, until it will eventually run out of energy to sustain its form, and die from "old age".

    Totally disregard this as I believe Novakid do not eat or breathe at all, as metabolising would not provide them with enough energy.
    Eating plasma would also be quite messy. It makes more sense to go with the battery metaphor, imho.
    Novakid possess a plentiful amount of energy once they mature into Novakid, which will deplete over time.
    They do not metabolise or gain energy through combustion. Any conversion of energy required for them to function depletes some of their energy, but this is not that important, considering the amount of energy they start off with.
    The major points that will deplete a Novakid's life force are regeneration and procreation.

    I'm not really going to bother explaining this for the Novakid, but I believe a Novakid could potentially have a "feminine" frame, considering a small electrical charge can alter the form of their "corona" or "hair", it'd be possible that they could alter their body shape in the same way.
    However, that's not that important.

    Agreed.

    Novakid have been known to heal through regeneration, after closing up the shell asap, regrowing limbs or fully restoring the shell properly takes quite a lot longer. Thus they can't regrow arms in the middle of combat.
    They also experience pain.

    Actually, if a Novakid takes too much damage they either perish (if severe) or get knocked unconscious, while the brand does its best to fix them up or to at least keep them alive long enough to allow them to recover over a longer period.
    Additionally, I'd say their weaknesses are their vulnerability, their below average strength and agility, but their endurance would actually be an advantage, as they possess a lot of kinetic energy already, which upon depletion, will force them to rest before they can recharge that energy.
    But this will still result in an above average "endurance".

    Blunt force trauma, electrical shocks and EMP's disrupting their brand and knocking them out is pretty basic.

    Sorry to burst "YOUR" bubble, but Novakid are quite vulnerable, and their regeneration is quite a key feature to their surviveability.
    If anything it'd be a lot easyer for Novakid to regenerate, as the only thing they have to do is gradually restore the original form of the shell, and shift their plasma around to restore their original form. This process will take a long time, but it'd still be quite feasible.

    ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Regardless, keep the feedback and discussion coming.
    I'm fairly set on my views and I've discussed this design with a friend of mine who studies physics at university, he agrees that it would make less sense for the Novakid to breathe Oxygen or metabolise food, as the energy one can gain by doing so pales in comparison of the potential energy stored electrically within the brand and a Novakid's plasma. The shell would need to work as a pretty strong insulator for warmth as a result, otherwise the plasma would disperse, like when they "bleed", and they would perish and burn things around them as a result. They would 'burn out', as it were.

    I believe my vision on how the Novakid function are rather balanced, somewhat make sense and make the race more unique.
    They're the most anomalous race of the starbound universe, so it's natural for them to function completely different when compared to the other species. There is little to be gained from trying to "humanise" every race.

    If in the end too many people persist in challenging my idea, I'll pass the Novakid physiology on to someone else and get to work on the Glitch instead.
     
  6. Alaystus

    Alaystus Resident Art Bum
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    Eh.
     
  7. Yotan

    Yotan New Member

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    This is going to be a rhetorical question but why ask for this:
    If you're going to be stubborn and do what you want anyways?

    Frankly this is the same BS you gave me in the Floran Physiology 'Open for Discussion" Thread. It isn't a discussion if you are going to be stubborn, not take in the communities feedback, ignore people, feelings and thought on the matter.

    I don't care is this make me seem like a prick, but I would rather not see you do any more of these threads is you are not going to even apply the feedback.

    What is even sad about this is that if too many people disagree with you. You are going to give up, instead of finding a way to compromise. What is going to happen if it is the same happens on other threads? More of the same?

    Again if you are going to ask for feedback and constructive criticism than hear it only to give this:

    Then nothing good will result from it. I am sorry if the current replies are limited for the proper amount of feedback you are looking for. Perhaps a full home page announcement should be made to get more people to check out and get the feedback you are looking for.
     
    #27 Yotan, May 7, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: May 7, 2016
  8. Alaystus

    Alaystus Resident Art Bum
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    I present my actual rebuttal. I went through multiple emotional stages while writing this, so my apologies in advance if certain parts are a little catty. I'm a Mean Girl on the inside.

    That's assuming that they don't need to breathe/metabolise/lose enough energy that requires them to "refuel". I have absolutely no idea where the concept of absorbing more plasma came into play, but it wasn't from my theory. Ingesting more plasma wouldn't be a way to recharge, it would be like a blood transfusion, which would only be necessary after an extended plasma emission. What I suggest is that the shell itself is held together by an electric charge, and we seem to be in agreement about that. But what I don't believe is that the energy in the brand is what drives the Novakid, meaning that the electromagnetic energy is not the Novakid's actual energy source. I believe combustion would make sense, as a constant supply of fuel would be required to make up for the exerted physical energy; heat.

    This disregards the energy exerted when moving or exercising. If a Novakid's endurance was directly associated with its life force, the being could potentially function endlessly until it worked itself to death; it would not need to cease and rest, negating sleep entirely, and would continue to live consciously until it had fully exerted itself. A Novakid's lifespan would then be determined by how much and how hard it worked. I think a race of lazy near-stationary star blobs sounds a bit boring myself.

    Sure. If this is how you'd like to look at it, I believe at some point the required rate of conversion from plasma to energy would probably outweigh the amount of plasma a Novakid can supply. With this concept, older Novakids would likely be smaller and thinner, similar to (some) old humans.

    Otherwise, I believe the original concept of "red giants" would be feasible. A Novakid's charge would slowly lessen, making the membrane thinner and causing the plasma to push more easily outwards. I guess they really don't have to be red. Just kinda fat. Eventually, the charge would run out, and the Novakid would simply dissipate.


    That's all good and fine, and you're free to believe that, but I respectfully disagree.

    Yes, it would be, I'd suggest no-one attempt such a feat.

    As for retaining their shell, yes. It makes sense.

    Please don't state your opinions as if they are already concrete facts when responding to someone else's proposal. It makes it hard to continue any sort of debate if you present your views in a way that leads us to believe you think you've already won.

    It's actually very important. I'm not sure how much energy you project them to have, but you can't fit an entire sun's worth of energy into a being of that size. Even if a Novakid had the capability to sustain itself for around 200 years, physical exertion alone could bring that number down significantly. And to be honest, I'd give them a lifespan of around 200 years at the most; especially since their level of technology is known to fluctuate rapidly with each passing generation. Anything much longer than that would be an incredibly gradual shift in technology, as they would be absolutely ancient before finally perishing.

    Sure, I'll go for that. Sustained.

    I'll attempt to explain it, because gender fascinates me and I find this aspect important. Firstly, I didn't mean to imply that different body shapes for different genders wouldn't exist, although I can see how it could be interpreted that way. (I was kinda thinking about that when I wrote it, my bad.) Before, I've explained different gendered body types in Florans by suggesting the concept of gender was introduced to Florans by alien species, and that eventually Florans began to "grow" into their respective gendered body type. This made sense to me, given that gender and sex are two separate concepts. (I provided this theory as an example, however, and there's no reason to debate Floran genders for the time being.) Anyway, for reasons unknown, the concept of gender in Novakids existed before their introduction to other races. Where exactly it came from, I'm not sure I could say, and given the Novakids' shoddily kept history, I'm sure none of them could say either. It would be best to leave that alone, and chalk it up to, "It's always been that way." Novakids at least have a concept of gender, and could therefore theoretically grow into their respective gendered body type. If you'd like, you could say their body type is determined by their sex, since you posed a distinction between males and females. That'd be hella easy, but still unexplainable.

    <3

    I think healing and regeneration should have a distinct difference. Being able to close up small wounds rather quickly is fine. Small cuts, scrapes, "bruises" would have very minor emissions. I think something such as a stab wound or laceration would be a bit more difficult to close up, and require a bit of pressure in order to knit back together in a timely fashion. Something like a bullet wound just about anywhere but the brand would likely be survivable given adquate pressure and quick medical treatment. Something of the caliber of losing a limb would be highly disasterous, and would probably require either a very quickly (and carefully) applied tourniquet while applying pressure to the stub of the lost appendage, or a gratuitous amount of whatever sort of bandage appliances exist for Novakids.

    This makes sense.

    Well, firstly;
    And while I recognize that "refuling" and "recharging" aren't exactly completely identical, they're... fundamentally synonymous. And I understand that in the instance I pulled your quote from, you were referring to combustion in the case of breathing oxygen or eating food, but I'm not quite sure how a Novakid would simply just "recharge" on its own by not doing anything. But also;
    So there's that.

    Secondly, yes; they are vulnerable. For example, if you shoot them, and they're far away from you, then you've got the advantage. But that's typically how it goes for shooting anyone. And yes, if you stab them, then they probably tear easily. But they practically bleed liquid fire on anything attacking them. Even if you break their "skin", you can't win; you will be melted. If anything, I'd give Novakids just about as much endurance as everyone else; if not just because it seems logical to me, but also to be fair. In a fight, the best strategy would be to tire them, and proceed to beat them until they concede, without breaking their skin excessively. That is, if you're organic.

    Below average strength seems adequate, but I don't think they'd necessarily have lower agility. If anything, they're a relatively lightweight people, are they not?

    Granted.


    All bubble bursting aside, I'd again like to make a distinction between healing and regeneration. For open wounds, I believe that after time the energy will build back up in that spot, and the wound will close. The membrane will knit itself back together. In this sense it would be like skin, but probably faster. I think the concept of regeneration, meaning the regrowth of a lost limb or body part would be a bit much. It would be like willing your insides to push and stretch your skin into the shape of a new arm or appendage. However, if regeneration is overly popular, I will concede that it could be explained plausibly. If the body knows what it's supposed to build, then I suppose it can rebuild. I personally just try to stay away from any sort of regeneration with any race, including Florans. You could argue that regeneration would be handy for just about any species, but I'm not sure it's really essential for the Novakid's chances of survival.


    I'd like to think that the finalized product for anything concerning an important aspect of role play would be a combined sort of compromise, consisting of everyone's input. It shouldn't be one persons's idea over anyone else's. And while I get a bit mad when people don't like my opinions, I understand that's rather illogical, and that I should try to look at things from different viewpoints. That being said, I'll continue to offer my own viewpoint.

    Also,
    I have absolutely no idea what the brand is made out of, or where it comes from. I cannot explain the brand. Is it a solidified manifestation of the plasmatic and electromagnetic engery, ionized into some sort of metal form? Who knows. Maybe there's a brand factory. Plasma storks that deliver brands from the baby factory. Couldn't tell you.
     
    #28 Alaystus, May 7, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: May 7, 2016
  9. Khaltor

    Khaltor Lore Master

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    You were the only one opposed to Florans having a forked tongue and jacobson organ.
    The fact that I didn't change what the majority of people agreed on means I'm doing it right.

    I've also added regeneration as a thing, despite the fact that I'd rather not have that, because it's a pain to regulate RP, ppl will often abuse such things. I've also had a lot of help and feedback which I've added in the write-up.
    So it's hardly just a product of my personal head canon or stubbornness.

    There's a lot more debate over how Novakid function, and for now I'm sticking with my idea, my view of it.
    Should people continue to disagree, I'll either change stuff around or hand the project over to someone else who might do a better job on that particular topic. As it stands, this is only a second draft, the Floran one had like 5 drafts and I didn't want to show early drafts to not get shit flung at me for being "biased" or something.


    I'm not being stubborn, Floran physiology aside, this isn't a finalised draft yet, everything here is subject to change, should the proposed changes be within reason. If people want to stick to the idea that Novakid somehow need to eat to fuel themselves, which is pretty dumb all things considered, then it'll be that way, I suppose. Depends on how vocal people are, how strongly they feel about it, hence why I do want more feedback.
    Perhaps there are some others who actually might agree with me but just aren't participating in this "debate", hence why I want more feedback and why there's no set time limit as of yet.

    All of this aside, you've been a real jerk since you've posted your own lore threads, or at least, that's how I've experienced it as of late.
    Your posts are filled with spite and you feel somehow privileged enough to have me alter something in the physiology paper based on YOUR opinion alone. I request you calm down a bit.
     
  10. Khaltor

    Khaltor Lore Master

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    Yep, pretty much.
    Sorta did a poor job expressing myself yesterday, in that sense.
    In the end, both the Floran and Novakid physiology threads are a product of compromise.
    I don't mean to give an ultimatum by saying I'd drop the subject if ppl challenge my idea.
    Tbh, that was sorta stupid to say.
    What matters is that I do appreciate the feedback and will most likely make some adaptations, to appease the majority of people, in a way that makes as much "sense" as possible and is RP-friendly.
     
  11. FoRgE

    FoRgE Whack-A-Yak-5

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    Whilst I did not read all of the posts because TL;DR.

    I chose remove eating and breathing purely for the fact that they could possibly absorb energy from the sun? I don't know I'm no wizz kid. But to go on my point, if they were to absorb energy from the sun or any small light source they'd be significantly weaker in the dark.

    In a similar matter to Florans no less.
     
    #31 FoRgE, May 7, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: May 7, 2016
  12. Doc

    Doc Video Game Extraordinaire

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    I doubt many people will listen to this, but I feel a 350-400 year lifespan is reasonable, mostly due to the fact that they're beings of plasma and expend very little energy on biological function due to, well, not having much in the way of biological function. The only real energy they expend is on motion and thought. And they get energy from foods as a form of bio-combustion; basically, since they're plasma, they don't combust fossil fuels because that's just dumb and they aren't coal furnaces, the plasma instead gains energy from caloric energy combusted when they "eat." I'll admit I'm not some scientist but this makes sense in my head.
     
  13. zkkzz

    zkkzz New Member

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    I don't like the idea that Novakid have a pool of energy that they expend to exist. It shuts down RP, in my opinion, because biologically it's inconsistent (why would they do anything but sit around unless arbitrarily forced to move by khaltor saying 'THEY'RE ALL BORED ALL THE TIME' which also limits character because it means all novakid are biologically programmed to kill themselves) and it removes the aspect of needing to sustain one's self through any form. Needing to eat can motivate a character, but you're removing that option for Novakid. You are limiting options for existing characters in an attempt to make them 'more interesting', 'more unique'. This isn't a book you're writing to get critical acclaim. This isn't a paper you're submitting toward a famous sci-fi author to prove that you're accurate. I think you, Khaltor, have lore that is maybe more sensible in a base sense, but removes variability for RP, which is the opposite of what you want. Ask more people that play Novakid about your ideas and get them to post here. I won't speak for Exo or Doc too much but it seems like they're in opposition, and they /play/ Novakid.

    I had an alternate solution that I tried to make as brief and RP-friendly as possible. It might not be perfectly scientifically accurate or explain everything, but I think it's fair. If implemented, think-- who will be frustrated? You, or the people who actually play Novakid?

    Novakid are beings with a soft outer shell and a gaseous inside. They’re warm, but not extremely warm. Their insides can last almost 350 years, but require regular refueling in the form of fuel or food. Their brand is mysterious, but mostly acts as their brain and is all that remains if they die. If they die, they dissipate in a flashbang effect. Shell will close itself in case of wound slowly, requires safe space. They are generally hyperactive, curious, and reckless, though each varies.
     
  14. Doc

    Doc Video Game Extraordinaire

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    I disagree with the gas inside. Honestly that would make less sense than the plasma, because at least plasma can somewhat function as a biological matter, whereas gas is just... Well, an aerosol.
     
  15. zkkzz

    zkkzz New Member

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    I don't really see a reason that plasma should be more functional as biological matter than plasma. The only reason I selected gas is because it's less hot and more reasonably could need to 'replenish' with sustenance. After all, plasma is just superheated/electromagnetised gas.
     
  16. Doc

    Doc Video Game Extraordinaire

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    At the same time, gas is generally highly flammable, and it would make no sense for a nova to not burst into flames if they are put in the right circumstances.
     
  17. zkkzz

    zkkzz New Member

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    Gas is a state of matter, like solid or liquid. 'generally highly flammable' does not make sense to me. Fire is a chemical reaction that only works with certain elements
     
  18. Khaltor

    Khaltor Lore Master

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    plasma is also a state of matter.

    they'd still combust if you'd shot them with a gun if they were flammable gas
     
  19. zkkzz

    zkkzz New Member

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    The fact that you still don't think I understand this is kinda insulting

    Yes, which is fine, what are you, what is your point, I don't get it
     
  20. Khaltor

    Khaltor Lore Master

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    Caloric intake and combustion both prove insignificant when compared to the energy a Novakid gains by direct energy conversion of plasma to electricity. I've already explained this multiple times.

    The lifespan does make enough sense, but you have to keep in mind that their regeneration makes them lose plasma, which is basically their life force, as doesn reproduction. With no functional way to replenish the energy they expend, I don't see why the idea of a lifespan of 300 years with a functional 120 years old after reproduction, regeneration and living would be a bad deal. It's mostly a way to balance their lifespan, because I think such a long lifespan makes the amount of time they spend in Antares look insignificant in their lives and also seems rather unfair.

    Not having to eat or breathe is a bonus and a curse, it's an interesting feature, in my opinion.
    It also makes the most sense.
    I don't think people should humanise the Novakid.
    If you want to play a human, play a human instead.

    While it is true that Novakid won't starve, or suffocate, their lifeforce is linked to their plasma.
    As such, 'living' is also what kills them.
    This isn't necessarily a bad thing. There are flies that live 1 day with the only goal in their life is to reproduce.
    Novakid wouldn't know what they're missing out on in terms of eating and smelling, and they wouldn't care about how their lifespan works.

    They're curious, explorative, adventureous, volatile, spontaneous, slightly short-sighted beings in nature.
    This adds a dynamic of added risk when a Novakid engages in combat, as their life force is on the line constantly.
    They can be aware and cautious not to get wounded too much as a result, despite being able to regenerate most injuries.

    You also have to keep in mind that they're immune to: disease, infection, poison, venom, toxicity and highly resistant to radiation and heat.

    I'd argue that indeed, the aspect of food RP may not be present in Novakid, but their lifespan is nothing to sneeze at and they aren't at an incredible disadvantage when compared to other races, they've got their advantages too.
    It does however add an entirely different way of life and different dynamic to an already highly anomolous race.