What about this then? You got Hylotl leaning more to the salamander side based off the Axolotls and Hylotl more off the fish-branch?
I was skimming through this article and holy shit man. You guys couldn't find anyone better than Lyro and Angre to do Avian lore? I don't know much about Haplap but last time I talked with Lyro, he needed help with basic avian lore... As for the topic at hand. They should just be different races. Some Hylotl have gills, some don't. Some Avians have beaks, some have bills. Some have talons, some have feather hands. But they're all the same species, so I don't see why that's really a problem and why we gotta discuss this so much.
Variety if the spice of life. As long as it is reasonably managed I dont see why it shouldnt be a possibility.
Do you have to monitor these things when they get applied? Since it'll just mean a bit of work for me to expand upon Hylotl biology and write plain and simple that you can choose to have gills for your character or not.
If you /really/ want to rewrite the lore so drastically as to create subspecies for... ANY of the races, then there should be a community vote.
Being honest, I'm not in charge of Avian lore, nor am I doing it. I just put in stuff here and there. But for my own two pence on the whole matter, I think giving Hylotl gills would be purely cosmetic for arts and such, otherwise it'll over-complicate things.
The problem I have with it is that I don't think there's an animal out there that can breathe both out of water and in water... I mean, I know Hylotl are aliens... But I think they DO lose their ability to breathe underwater, because we know their young can breathe underwater, but there's no sign that the adults are able to do the same. Actually, considering there's an "ARMOUR SET", which the Hylotl caretakers wear when they gather their young from little bodies of water, to the ocean, I'd assume, because I'm assuming the armour would be equiped with a form of oxygen provider. Whether or not that's like the back item or the suit in-game, IDK, because we don't usually use those, but I believe it implies Hylotl adults can in fact NOT breathe underwater. I also, personally, don't think we should make exceptions and create subspecies. I also think making Floran subspecies sounds cool, but I don't think it would be a good idea either. Edit: Apparantly there are, but my point still stands. Mudskipper - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sorry Doc I don't have a list of all the players who play birbs on this server (and there is a lot of them). But I agree with Khaltor on hylotl breathing, and Lyro view of it over-complicates things. Variety in looks is fine but that is not the subject here. The base of this subject beyond the name of the thread. Having a race, have sub-species with different traits/abilities than the other sub-species of its race. That is the core of discussion. I frankly don't see why this has to be an issue at all. Sub-species are a no. Leave it to the players when they create their character to have odd or weird genetic traits. If a player can explain why their owl-ish looking avians head can turn 270 degrees but they can't move their eyes. Like owls Or a hylolt with a genetic trait that caused their hylolt keeps their ability to breath water. However with positive trait there should be a flaw as well. If they breath water then perhaps they are require to say is heavy humid planets to keep those gills moist. A floran that can't eat type of meat due to a protein allergy. A glitch with an alloy issue corrosion problem that requires their joints to soak in oil for 5 hours a day, or their joint cease up and they can't move. What about a Novakid that has to have a stead stream of plasma being inhaled or piped into them to keep there gaseous nature of they were burn out decades/centuries they are suppose too. Perhaps an apex with Alopecia areata, an autoimmune disease that causes hair to fall out in small, random patches. The hair loss usually affects the scalp, but it can also occur in other areas of the body. What I am getting at is. We as humans know that there are weird, odd, positive, and negative genetic traits that a people are born with everyday. That should hold true for that species in starbound. Understand? Leave it to the players make their characters. Let them be creative and not just create cookie-cutter system (sub-species) for them to have an easy way out. Really the question that should be asked about having sub-species for races is: Why do we need them? What is the point about creating them? Is this really needed? Do we restrict the number of sub-specie? If we do make them, how many sub-species per race/specie? How many traits can a sub-specie have? Do they came with flaws with positive trait? What limits do we put on them? I am sure there are plenty more questions that need to be asked about them, and they need to be asked definitely. This isn't just about whether or not one race can breath under water or not. Every race could probably benefit from a trait(s) that the starbound race/specie animal it is based off. However, do we REALLY need to make sub-specie for them??? Frankly we need to be more objective on this discussion and not bias toward our favorite race(s). TL;DR Sorry Doc, don't have list of everyone that plays a Avian. I agree with Khatlor I agree with Lyro's comment This should not be an issue at all. All races/species are probably born with genetic defects. Leave it to the player in creating their character. Don't make and easy way out for players. Ask important questions about making sub-species. Be objective and not favor the race/specie you like.
