[FACTION!] The Miniknog...

Nah, see. The problem I have is that if you start off a faction as a fleet, then there is the opportunity for that fleet to be abused. "Oh, you are trying to attack us? Guess what - invisible fleet is gonna blow you up now." or, "Oh, you became enemies with us? Time to send the invisible magic fleet."

Just kinda' tugs me the wrong way.

 

Thus: "Perceived Antagonists". Both the Miniknog and Stargazers are relatively gray factions. They both do a lot of things that could be considered evil, but they're also the representing bodies of their entire culture. Arguably the Miniknog goes about it in a closer-to-black way (no social freedoms, oppressive economic system, heavy political propaganda/indoctrination), but that doesn't make them evil.

That won't stop every billy with a gun from seeing them as evil, though.

 

Ahhh, okay, that makes sense. Felonious = Smart

 

Perceiving a faction as evil doesn't exactly make someone a billy.

 

I would like to note that the point of 1984's Ingsoc isn't to be evil for the sake of being evil, or to be evil to preserve their culture, but to be evil so that their positions of power will never be threatened by the people below them. If you're considering joining this faction and haven't read 1984, I would highly suggest that you do so.

That said, the Miniknog are quite obviously portrayed as being very arbitrarily evil indeed:

 

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Personally, I feel that the set up of the idea is organized enough to be self-contained and away from modifying lore, which is why arguments like this:

Are a bit ridiculous. The idea is designed so that even if the lore changes, the result stays the same: All of the traits of what you'd expect from something influenced by a given institution without any potential future lore dredging it up, without it truly representing the institution it emulates. Let's say the hypothetical is true (which you shouldn't be basing the argument anyway, but hey, let's roll with it) and say "Welp, the Apex made the Agarans." In the context of this faction, the conclusion drawn would be "So what?"; they're not a solid part of the real Miniknog anymore. They lost contact with Big Ape. They colonized a place that can't reach him anymore, they're acting on their own accord. The only similarity is their philosophy, which dictates how they go about their business, and there's enough concrete lore to support that which /hopefully/ won't go away anytime soon. Why would anything else matter, if it doesn't taint the lore in anyway? The answer is it doesn't: Much like how the Fleet we have here follow the footsteps of the Stargazers and the religious ideologies that prevail for Avians, and the USCM (despite their flaws) follows the philosophies of the actual USCM, they're doing the same thing. I say, more power to them.

The only thing I hope is that all the 1984 inner espionage, sabotage, and stuff stays. That'd be the icing on the cake.

 

As if were rolling the MiniKnog because we secretly wish we ruled a totalitarian society. As if we will act blantly evil how it is portrayed in the sloppy and barely written lore. We may represent a government that seeks absolute dominance automatically makes you a Evil jackboot, instead of a effectivly brainwashed being who geniuinely thinks he is doing the best thing he can for himself and his kin.

I both read 1984, and I also lived behind the other side of the Iron Curtain, heck I even read "One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich" so don't presume to "enlighten" me on how totalitarianism is bad.

Yes - assumeing off the bat a Organisation is evil - especially, if it is all here-say from a very bias source ( rebels stand in direct opposition to the government, ofcourse there views are bias) - makes you a Billy with a Gun.

And now for some Propaganda

​

 

That doesn't really make sense, but whatever.

Also, you're saying that the faction shouldn't act as the lore dictates, then the alternative is just saying "fuck the lore, we'll do what we want," and at that point why even call it Miniknog if you're just going to ignore the official Miniknog lore?

 

The faction will work as according to the lore, we just won't go around suppressing others for not being obedient to us, or flat out do evil things just for the fuck of it.

If only because this is not MiniKnog space - we can't exercise the same brand of government without a solid foothold, or we'll get snuffed out. It's not going against the lore, it's basic Politics. You can't go in to a new land guns blazing, you must appear to be friends. ( even Cortez in the beginning traded with the natives )

After all - it is necessary to get behind someone before you can stab them in the back.

 

I am presenting the information how it is displayed in the source material, that being 1984. George Orwell was very much against totalitarianism, and so as a result Ingsoc is shown, by any moderate standard of morality, to certainly not be in the right. The Miniknog should not be either. Regardless, I do like the idea that the people within it would not see themselves as such - after all, everyone views themselves as the protagonist, or at least the antihero, of their own life.

Finally, if I might propose a motto for the Miniknog faction:

“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Bananas are strength.”

 

1984 is not the Lorebook for the Apex - just it's inspiration. Warhammer Dwarfs are also inspired by Tolkien's Dwarves and trust me aside from the physical appearance and very broad general ideas ( untrusting, skilled craftsmen, skilled warriors, living under rocks) those two couldn't be more dissimilar.

 

The mannerisms, attitudes, and actions everyone takes within the confines of the Miniknog, while condensed into simpler means (since it's a game) shouldn't stop us from drawing more from it as a basis for doing something. I'm pretty sure that's how roleplay works. Doesn't have to be evil: Antagonism doesn't not directly mean evil, but if it's the most relevant material, then why limit the inspiration, or not follow the methods used in the story?

Also, fun fact:

I made that Apex flag in the background. Yoink!

 

Because.

 

...but you plan to. Ergo, the point is still valid; it's simply been pushed back further into the future, to a timeframe where it will embrace the Miniknog philosophy. I'm simply stating that, if and when it does, what's stopping you from taking more inspiration from the material it's been inspired from? While still maintaining it's own identity, of course.

 

Because the philosophy isn't applicable to new folds. The current Miniknogs society and accordingly also the 1984 world, has been raised for generations to think act and do as the Government tells them to. People who were raised in different cultures which all poses a smaller or greater amount of Free will, and consequently incompatible with the "Big Brother" model of totalitarianism, and would rebel. That is counterproductive and jeopardizes our position.

 

Then don't make new folds. It's better to realize a lore faction wouldn't work than to make up lore so that it suits you.

 

Show me in the established lore where it says they are a closed society that doesn't expand.
You can't, because it's not there - a lot of the Apex lore is nonexistent, and only broad statements are ever made about the faction. As soon as the devs care to release more in-depth lore that contradicts this play style, I'm more than happy to reform to it or even cease and desist.

 

... So I was right?

Or not?

Noo, I was still Right it seems... My point was that they weren't evil because their goal (progressing science and technology) needed them to be evil, but they were evil kinda for the sake of speeding that shit up... I think? I dunno, whatever.

I'd suggest a colony where the rules are strict, the punishments just as strict, but God-DAMN if it ain't a safe place. The faction in general should be more towards the somewhat dark-grey side of things. The "death penalty" would either be so much thought reassignment that you turn into a mindless soldier, or you're used as a test subject!