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The truth behind Floran speech impediments (because knowing is half the battle!)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by GoneDark, Apr 22, 2015.

  1. GoneDark

    GoneDark Previously Darkwill

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    Alright. First off I wanna start with the statement.

    ALL NON CIVILIZED/ CAUSTIC/ HURTFUL POSTS WILL BE DELETED ASAP. THIS GOES FOR WHATEVER SIDE OF ANY DEBATE THAT FOLLOWS. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

    Now, with that unpleasant bit out of the way, let's get to it, shall we!

    Floran lisps.... The great controversy of our time. Some say the Floran are mentally hardcoded to this. Others insist it's due to a defect in anatomy, or physiology. Perhaps it is the work of faulty translator parsing!

    However, I insist it is merely tradition.

    For one, let's define the word lisp. Stereotypically, a lisp was something you'd call the inability of an individual to pronounce the S sound. S. As in "She Sssssssells sssssseashellsssss down by the ssssseashore." -Floran in speech therapy.

    But perhaps it's just a misnomer. People probably just mean an impediment. However, an impediment means "a hindrance or obstruction in doing something." So a speech impediment is "a defect in a person's speech, such as a lisp or stammer."

    Now we already elimanated the possibility of a lisp. So perhaps they just have to say the S. There's no way a Floran could even realize it could...
    [​IMG]

    Oh yeah.

    Well, maybe they don't have to think that way, but that Floran has obviously had surgery to alter its anatomy. It's long tongue and lack of lips are what causes the sound then!

    I mean, snakes have long tongues and they lisp.... errr.... hiss...
    Alright you got me there. Except the last time I checked, A Floran isn't a snake. They do keep them as pet's though... (<3 you too, Spirited Giraffe)
    At any rate, to see what I mean, try taking the sentence mentioned earlier, (She Sssssssells sssssseashellsssss down by the ssssseashore.)... and say it whilst your tongue doth protrudeth from thine mouth. (stick your tongue out and try and say it.)

    ...Well yeah.... but no lips!

    Oh really? So.... this thing:
    [​IMG]
    doesn't show it's possession of lips?

    But...But...

    It's okay, it's also a moot point. Lips aren't responsible for the S sound either. try saying the sentence again, (She Sssssssells sssssseashellsssss down by the ssssseashore.) This time though, keep your teeth pressed together, and keep your lips spread apart.

    Yeah, I was able to do it see!

    ...Exactly. That's my point.

    oh. Well, obviously they don't all speak English, or even human. Theirs evidence in the lore supporting this, and other evidence supporting that they all have translation equipment. So ha!

    Well, that's the best point you've made so far. However.... it's also got a lot of gaps in it that don't really hold up. For one, the outpost sweatervest clad Floran comes into play again. We can either safely assume since it speaks so clearly and properly, without any sort of extra S sounds that it either was taught / learned differently, or that it could be using the Player's race's language when speaking to them, thus sounding more understandable, or (and I don't think as of yet there's anything in the lore to support this, but I could be wrong, feel free to correct this part...) there is a universally accepted language at this point, and the Floran is using that and speaks it well.

    Problem 1: if it was taught / learned differently in its own races tongue, then that would kind of explain everything but the extra s sounds. It's like translating broken primitive English to Spanish (or vice versa), versus translating a properly worded Spanish paragraph to English. (or versa vice) It'll sound decent in your own tongue, but stuff is lost in translation. However. This would not really mean it would add an extra S to predetermined words. So strike one for translator error.

    Problem 2: If it knows the player's racial language, and is speaking like that, (which is first of all highly unlikely it knows up to 7 unique ((?)) languages, perhaps more, considering that on Earth there is more than just English...), wouldn't it then be prone to actual speech impediments? Like how English speakers sometimes have trouble rolling their R's, the French are stereotypically and comically portrayed as having trouble with 'th', same with Asians and L's. (by the way, I hate those stereotypes) Just seems a little far-fetched. Strike two.

    Problem 3: If there was a universally accepted language, then it would make that the standard, because voice detection software for 7 different races wouldn't really be universal from a lore standpoint (differences in technology levels), and would be horribly expensive. Not everyone would have access to such things. Strike three. You're out!

    Honestly though, I know translators are an actual thing lore wise. I also know of there being references in the lore to race specific languages. So it is possible that everyone has a sort of translator, and everyone just speaks their own tongue. But if that were true, then while the Floran scholar would have had a better vocabulary, it would still add the extra s sounds, if that were a part of the language. Or take away the sound from not so scholarly Florans. The fact that it would add the extra sounds to the translation would seem to be for an accurate representation of how the Floran is using it's own language, which would support the idea that they do it as a choice.

    But why would anyone want to make such a noise if it isn't necessary?

    For exactly that reason. It. ISN'T. Necessary.
    They add it on, for reasons that may not fully be understood, but perhaps it's tradition. Perhaps its just what's socially acceptable to them. Perhaps, they don't even do it around each other, only in the presence of other races/ tribes / cultures /etc. Maybe to scare or intimidate. Maybe it's only when they are stressed or excited. Who knows.

    What we do know though, is that though it may be a thing most Florans do, is it the norm? Perhaps. Is it physically necessary? Most likely not. Should Florans that behave differently be confined to this hissing? I don't think so. Can it be fun? Sure! Should it be something that is enforced....

    That's up for you to decide.
     
  2. DeltaV

    DeltaV New Member

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    The Outpost Floran is, in my opinion, more due to some contradictory writing by the devs than anything else. I think it goes against server lore, too.
     
  3. GoneDark

    GoneDark Previously Darkwill

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    I don't buy it. It why would they all of a sudden deviate from the norm without a reason? Why not just put another race as that role, or just make another tribal Floran? I think there's even a reference to that NPC in a quest as the Floran Scholar, though I need to look through and confirm that.

    Also, why would it go against server lore? As I'm pointing out, what is there that forces the Floran to speak like this?
     
  4. Khaltor

    Khaltor Lore Master

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    There's no reason to force it, but i believe people don't want a lot of plantsuit type characters becase they're special snowflakes and no1 likes that.
     
  5. Shag

    Shag High Impact Sexual Implications

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    I don't buy it. It why would they all of a sudden deviate from the norm without a reason? Why not just put another race as that role, or just make another tribal Floran? I think there's even a reference to that NPC in a quest as the Floran Scholar, though I need to look through and confirm that.[/QUOTE]
    It's probably just for show. It's a game not a story to them. While they're trying to make it look a bit more like an RPG and adding elements of such, the main purpose of the game is to be... well, a sandbox game. To build, explore and mine.
    They probably want to show that not all florans are inherently evil. However this last statement has been usually taken out and horrifically stretched out to the point where you see stupidly cute florans running around smelling flowers and going 'uguu, isss floran cutess?" or "I am a civilized member of society, cheerio mate."

    The thing is, a lot of other players that have stuck here from before have seen a lot of problems going around with Florans, specially the widespread epidemic of Snowflake Syndrome, which in all honesty just turns out to be worse than the original problem, which is to stay true to their culture and hissy-ness.

    Because we have decided to leave some of the canon lore out in order to make Florans more "Floran-like" and alien rather than just another human with an alien suit. It'd completely erase the reason for playing a floran, if you're just going to use them for aesthetic purposes rather than to actually play a character that is a member of a controversial race. Might as well just play a human.

    Again, the only thing that forces floran to speak the way they do is probably the fact that they have accents and speak using other parts of their mouth and vocal areas. French speak with all their mighty nasalness. English speaking people tend to use the mouth and larynx, the same way spanish people tend to use more the pharynx and palate a lot more than other people.. Believe it or not accents stick and you can't get rid of them after a certain age or period of your life, no matter how long you spend talking in a language other than your native one. I've known people who have lived in the US or Canada who lived there for over 40-50 years and still have their native accents.
     
  6. GoneDark

    GoneDark Previously Darkwill

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    Right. So if it's an accent, then it can be influenced in other ways? So it doesn't have to be forced? So a Floran spending most of its life as a minority on a planet with perhaps its own unique accent could have a completely different way of speaking than with a hiss. This is what I'm trying to say.

    Although, aren't they fleshing out a complete story and lore within their game soon? Games are a form of art and storytelling too, and though lots of sandbox games tend to shy away from stories, I don't think this is one of them.

    Well perhaps it would be better to teach these people how to RP properly. Because does it honestly affect your roleplay if someone is different? That's not to say you should be different by having magic, or psychic powers, or power/metagame. (though the first two could be used... Just not if done OP) That's the thing. Not everyone who wants to be different wants to abuse their abilities. Why pick on a civilized Floran who can't really do much, when you could pick on someone who has suddenly just poofed into having thousands of pixels, hundreds of mechs, is the head of some powerful corporation... I see people like that all the time, and they hardly get a sideways glance, let alone ooc verbal hatred.
     
    #6 GoneDark, Apr 22, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 22, 2015
  7. Conrad Fiat

    Conrad Fiat New Member

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    Fun fact: doesn't care at all, just like to roleplay, dont make this a BIG deal since its just for fun, and if people want to use ''Isssess'' or without them, let them! there is no rule based on that fact.
     
  8. Shag

    Shag High Impact Sexual Implications

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    Problem with the whole minority thing is that you have to remember that Floran don't quite mature the same way the rest of the species do. It is well known that they mature faster and also that they are generally if not always (except here in Antares, of course) regarded as a hostile species looking for its own gain. The backstory of 'found out alone/sole survivor of tribe then picked up by a human' is generally overused. Logically speaking no one would pick up a floran to care for them, because they are BORN mature, and by the time anything like that ever happened then the Floran would most likely already have the seeds of its culture engraved into its mind, and therefore regarded as a threat by any other species (except maybe glitch) and swiftly eliminated, because they wouldn't wish to become its next meal.

    The problem comes into play when the majority of the server throws out the canon lore of every species but Glitch believing that floran are goodie-two-shoes and that one shouldn't be so quick to judge them, even if they did kind of carry out horrendous deeds in many, many, maaaany many many many occasions and have been constantly at war with every species but glitch.

    As for the rest of the people who 'asspull', --for the lack of any other better, blunt term-- they are often shunned and ignored, regardless. They eventually fade out and after lurking for a bit, or if they're genuinely concerned and ask other players, they find out what's wrong with doing that.

    Usually however, people respond with hostility or denial when being told that they can't do such things because it alters the bigger picture and affects everyone, and more often than not, results in major shitstorming and in some cases public humiliation (which is now thankfully prohibited.)
     
    #8 Shag, Apr 22, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 22, 2015
  9. Wreth

    Wreth New Member

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    The interaction and conflict between tribal and ''civilised'' florans is a cool and lore friendly topic for some good rp. For this to occur there has to actually be a difference between the types of florans...
     
  10. Shag

    Shag High Impact Sexual Implications

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    It's true.

    I exaggerated a little bit without realizing. I believe things such as civilized florans and their lack of lisps is alright so long as they are regulated and role-played reasonably.
     
  11. Smokestack

    Smokestack Bird man with a bird plan

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    There's also a lateral lisp and a strident lisp.
    A lateral lisp is when air pushed over the sides of the tongue causing a slushy sound on an S.
    A strident lisp is when a high pitched sound, hissing , is produced between the tongue and a hard surface. Such as the mouth of the Floran. I mean, if they're plant-people, wouldn't they be made of the same hard fiber if not only slightly different?
    In combination, the two would cause hissing.

    The snake hissing while speaking thing is actually a TV trope. Hissing is produced in an organ that a snake has in its throat called a glottis. The hissing is only heard when air is expelled quickly. But also, snakes have narrow and long tongues. Floran have long wide tongues. I can't back this up though. I don't see many official pictures of the inside of a Floran's mouth.

    I'm Vietnamese. It is a tonal language meaning that all words are greatly affected by their pitch. So I must use my throat to change the pitch. So I'd imagine that if I was using a translator, one like the Starbound one, it would make certain words sounds higher and lower than others. Also, translators can add S's. Imagine if the translator had only translated the word and then added the remainder. "Sunset" would be recognized as the word but the S's would be emphasized by the translator. Like Vietnamese would be with pitch.
    Also, speaking in a different language forms habits. Although born in the US, I still drop pitch sometimes out of nowhere due to knowing how to speak Vietnamese.

    If I know lore correctly, only the United Systems Colonial Marines and maybe a handful of civilians with them survived the Earth situation. Seeing as how it's a united system and humans have no trouble speaking with one another, there probably is a language all of them speak. Hey, maybe that language that the United Nations tried passing through actually worked. Words can still be comprehended through a translator even if the person has an accent. My dad has a thick Vietnamese accent and can still use voice to text. Lisps, as I mentioned before, would still add the S's after the word is processed.

    This is just Chucklefish's way of having the races all be able to speak to each other. If you need a explanation, look at technology now and see how small it is getting. Now look 400 years in the future. Imagine how small it would be. Voice detection would be easy.

    Now, I'll say that I care very little about the whole deal. People do what people want and words don't break walls.
     
  12. Wreth

    Wreth New Member

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    Everyone can speak to each other because we all have Universal translators.

    When you talk to an Agaran you get Universal Translator errors.