I was going to reply it to this thread: http://community.playstarboundrp.co...with-florans-so-come-check-it-out.6180/page-3 . But my answer was so long and complicated, as well as the fact that the original thread was Flora asking advice and it somehow became a discussion thread on the Floran server canon, that i thougt, might as well make it a new thread. Constructive critiscism and giving your sources and arguments against mine are highly valued. I love balance, people seem to think Floran regeneration is unfair and stupid, this is what i think about that. Don't just accuse me of favouritism. I think all races should be balanced but if they're all different then Florans should be in fact the best melee combattants since that is their general theme, they even use guns (guards use guns and they have racial plant guns too) so they might be great with those too. Fighting is a Floran's whole theme and background. Hylotls: Culture. Avian: Religion. Human: no real bonuses or drawbacks, all-rounded/variable Apex: Science, Organised military Glitch: Robot people; computer like brain and medieval theme to them: great knightly armours for defense, strong knight combattants with modern tech. Floran: Spreading, Agressive, Hunters, Warriors. This isn't easy to balance out because it's not just black and white. We can assume that Florans, since they have such a tribal warrior culture, kick the "average" Hylotl's ass. (They took their homeworld) That's because the Hylotl's strengths lie elsewhere. Now after little intro this was my point as to how i think Florans should be played or interpreted as they are described in the lore: Whether or not they had a Flamethrower is irrelevant. The Incarcerus Notes confirm that Florans have a greater than average strength among the other races. They DO posses greater strength and agility than Apex, in the Lore. Here are the notes for reference: Spoiler Project Incarcerus Notes 5 The first fights went down today. The Apex citizens versus a bunch of monsters we captured. This went pretty well. Only one casualty, and the Apex were perfectly capable of fending for themselves. The Miniknog helped by cheering them on and commanding them to fight. Turns out the Apex citizens are still formidable fighters when it comes down to it. Monster parts everywhere. Even the Miniknog seemed impressed. Big Ape watched via video link, of course, and expressed his concerns about the Apex being too competent, but he hasn't seen the thrall in which the Miniknog still hold them. Project Incarcerus Notes 6 Recently, I contacted my old friend Greenfinger. As usual, he came through for me, and provided me with what I asked for. Ten angry, rabid Florans, out for a fight. I questioned him as to whether they were prisoners, and he said no, they were just bored. I attempted to brief the Florans on how the battle should go down, but I don't think I got through to them. In fact, I narrowly avoided being impaled by a rogue Floran spear. Greenfinger did warn me, I suppose. Tomorrow, they shall fight my Apex. Project Incarcerus Notes 7 Well that's that experiment over for now. Nine Florans remain, and no Apex. And I don't just mean the citizens either, the Miniknog guards fell afoul of the Floran menace too. I tried to stop them, but Big Ape commanded me to let it play out. I admit, it was interesting to watch. The Apex may possess great physical strength, but the Floran outmatch them in all areas. Big Ape is plotting something. He told me to wait before restarting the experiment. I, in the meantime, have to herd nine angry Florans back into their quarters. Project Incarcerus Notes 8 Big Ape has tasked me with finding a way to ensure our Apex soldiers are capable of taking down a Floran with ease. I thought about the long, hard, gruelling training regimen this would involve. Even if we just focused on the Miniknog soldiers, it would take forever. No, something better is required. We need a breed of Apex who is stronger, better, faster than the rest. Front-line soldiers who are capable of leading the charge, and dealing the brunt of the damage. I've put in another call to Greenfinger. I know that Floran DNA is very malleable, and can be spliced rather easily. I need his permission to experiment on the Florans he sent, and knowing Greenfinger, he'll happily grant it.
What do we learn from these notes? 1. The Apex Citizens were trained and able to fight off monsters. (Which the citizen npcs or just people random citizens irl wouldn't be able to do, i mean, would you be able to fight off a bear for instance? With just a sword? Because they were using melee weapons. Big Ape and the Miniknog were impressed at how COMPETENT they were as fighters, for Apex. 2. Greenfinger brought 10 random, bored Florans for the Apex to fight with. 3. The Florans massacred both the 10 Apex armed, competent citizens AND the remaining Miniknog guards, who should have numbered about the same amount as the citizens, from the earlier experiment. 4. The observing scientist, who is friends with GREENFINGER himself, is able to deduce that Florans are physically superior to Apex. 5. Getting an Apex to be " capable of taking down a Floran with ease " would take a long, hard gruelling training regiment. Even if they'd focus on the Miniknog soldiers it woud take "forever". 6. Since the scientist and Big Ape recognise the physical and biological limits of the Florans they turn their gaze to genetic manipulation; if you can't beat em, join em! So they want to incorporate Floran DNA into Apex to make them stronger. (I think this is what the Agarans are, a experiment that went horribly wrong, would explain why they are so cruel to Florans and why they always appear in Apex structures and mess up Big Ape's propaganda posters) This is a LORE CERTAINTY, no matter how much you're gonna grumble and complain it is a FACT that Florans, although the brunt of them is close to retarded with the notable exceptions of Greenfinger, Sunflower Tzu and a couple of wisemen Florans, the smarter ones seem to, although still being savage, a bit weaker than the norm or at least physically less imposing. (http://starbounder.org/Floran_Sandstone_Statue : It is Greenfinger, we know from Greenfingers outburst at the end of the Incarcerus notes (there is more) he sometimes loses his temper and has a savage outburst. We know that Greenfinger is a genius, from the Incarcerus notes as well and other Lore sources. From the descriptions of his statue we can deduce that he doesn't look too physically imposing and that he, at least in said sandstone statue, has a composed look. So if you're going to complain about Floran regeneration, because it has no scientific/logical basis aside from the whole sci-fi fantasy theme the server has going for it, then lookie here, we have a canonical piece of information about the Florans. Mind you, because everyone apparantly wants to be a BAD ASS having a race that is generally stronger than average doesn't have as much as an impact, as everyone has their own share of fireweapons, probably a flamethrower or two in their backpocket, a couple of dozen of EMP's in your vest for the occasional Glitch, not to mention the uncanonical genetic variations such as a "Void" Hylotl (Tideborn & Blade's Edge) or Shadow Avians(?), basically mutants that are superior to the normal race somehow, in an attempt to create a "unique snowflake character", or insane cybernetics without roleplaying the downsides of cybernetics or the upkeep costs and maintenance of such devices. You either keep the current Floran set up we have or you approve the idea of a race of: 1. Racial hero/prodigy/genius Greenfinger (not playable or able to use since we're cut off from the main factions) (Not meant for players because that's OP, it's like having an Avian play Thornwing or Kluex even) 2. A smart breed of Florans that may be or not be physically weaker. ((Your equivalent to a human scientist, like Aedan Terallis)) 3. A medium-type intelligent combattant Floran (Like Sunflower Tzu basically, for Floran warlords)(A commander/officer in the USCM)) 4. A rather dumb, naive, but physically strong and great combattants, mostly due to instinct and their Tribal society. ((The average Floran citizen. > The Average Apex/other races' canonfodder, average soldiers) (This shouldn't be a problem because almost everyone that RP's a fighter is "way more skilled and talented than "THE AVERAGE soldier"") Floran have a meager culture, are generally unintelligent but they love meat, they love the hunt and they expand through the galaxy. Every tribe has their own level of agression, and since we in Antares are cut off from the main Floran command structure or horde, it is possible to have "rare none-evil" Florans. Since the none-evil Florans are exiled from the mainstream tribes for being too soft. (Floran introduction) There's a reason why Florans are generally hated by Apex, Hylotl, Avians, AND Humans. They took the Hylotl home planet. (Canon, lore) They hunt Apex. (The starter ship is a stolen Apex ship and there's tons of item descriptions/examination texts that imply that Florans hunt Apex without much effort, unless you're an OP player ofcourse, or unless the Floran is hopelessly outnumbered and outgunned) The incident between the Avians and the Florans, which caused them to gain acces to FTL technology.(Canon, lore) They have been in a couple of fights with Humans who fled because of their overwhelming numbers, they tried using herbicide to kill them but that only made them "drunk". ((Though i'm pretty sure Napalm would do the trick, it'd fuck up the environment too, but who cares eh? It's RP so nobody cares about consequences, aparantly...)) I can agree that if you have flamethrowers or superior weaponry you can probably fight off most Floran threats, but that goes for every race/war ever. Fact remains the Florans are a savage people of hunters and warriors. Currently Florans aren't even taken seriously because people always let them be raised by other races and claim "oh i was raised by "humans, glitch, ..." so i'm civilised. (I'm guilty of this myself, with Oak) And characters like Flora who act all cutesy with no bite to them whatsoever. Our RP isn't PERFECT, we have to accept that. We have Glitch running around with human brains in them, although there is no canonical lore that states that any race would be able to create/recreate or operate on Glitch (this happends all the time, Rig-B, Astora, Bolt). Floran regeneration is just a fluff way to recover from injuries. Sure it's not LORE-Supported or logical, but neither are 40% of the things that occur on the server. Florans are my favourite race, i find a race of somewhat dumb, naive, and savage plants fascinating. But the truth is if your Foran's lore strengths aren't valid, then why would you take its drawbacks? Why should people be forced to play evil, savage, dumb Florans if nobody recognises their "Prowess". Even though Florans are my favourite race (repeat), i believe in balance. Currently, Florans are balanced, as long as people don't regenerate TOO quickly. If you remove Floran regeneration, then you have to buff Florans somwehere else, as it is supported in the Lore. ... K I'm done now, bring on the torches and pitchforks ...
I'm not raising a pitchfork, but I re-read the pdf again to make sure about this bit: That's completely false. According to pdf, avians contacted glitch after seeinf from orbit/skies a camp of theirs with dismembered bodies, learning the super-aggressive locals. Then, a ship blew up in orbit for unknown reason, florans adquired FTL somehow, and got away of blockade jumping while still in orbit, razing a wide area of forest. Monsters! As much, they killed and raided glitch research party, but avians never landed. Onto the thread... Personally, I hadn't a problem with their regeneration (mostly because other players use cybernetics), as long it takes time and not simply to handwave maiming and serious wounds (as long it's factible, they won't be able to regen after being cut in half or 'losing' their head), but it should be left only for limbs. As the organ is more complicated, regeneration should take more time, or even be impossible. That bit of the USCM herbicide is actually funny. They used it more as a desperate move to attempt an evacuation, and worked as florans weren't fit enough to fight in that state, allowing the US to open a way trough them and effectively evacuate the planet. (honestly, having a bunch of drunk soldiers means they will get slaughtered, in that state). I don't think florans are dumb or naive, as they are hunting packs using any and all forms to best their foes: strenghts, cunning, deception... anything goes on for them, it doesn't need to be the regular stab in front of everyone, drag away by force, or something done in plain sight of an entire bar in it's happy hour with a dozen of witnesses. And florans aren't evil, their culture simply lacks ethics, or at least should in most cases. I lied. Get stabbed by the pitchfork and burn under the torch!
Florans aren't stupid as you seem to insist, but they simply use their intelligence for violence, not science. Why build your own technology when you have the combat ability strong enough to allow you steal it or pry it from your prey's cold dead hands? I've always gotten the impression that florans are no less intelligent than the other races (except apex which are Starbound's Einsteins), but that it's just that their savage culture which means they don't actually use their intelligence to build technology, they use it to hunt and kill. They ARE smart enough to easily reverse engineer and salvage technology though. When it comes to fighting, killing and hunting they are effectively able to use cunning and smart tactics to win.
Yeah, i shoulda reread that part to make sure... Editing it, but it's not a major argument breaker, a minor detail at most.
Spoiler The Avians continue studying the Florans for hundreds of years, but never land on FL1-4 - the Florans exhibit an uncanny ability to break down and reverse-engineer foreign technology, subsume it into their already-existing technology. The technology they gained from salvaging robot bodies is, thankfully, limited (due to the robots’ own design limitations). Catastrophe strikes without notice or warning: a gas leak in a reserve ship re-supplying the Avian research vessel causes a huge explosion, instantly killing the crew and disabling the ship’s autopilot. The supply ship burns through FL1-4’s atmosphere and crashes on the surface - the secrets of space travel are suddenly laid bare for the Floran civilization to unearth (literally). Observing this with some alarm, the Avian research vessel calls for military intervention - a blockade of the planet to stop the Florans from spreading into space. The blockade arrives promptly, but is of little effect. The Florans, in a move which the Avians would have never considered, activate the FTL drive on their new ship while it is still within FL1-4’s atmosphere, causing a gigantic explosion (razing approximately 3000km² of forest) and allowing the Florans to slip right through the Avian blockade. This triggers an ongoing conflict between the Avians and the Florans, with the Avians only trying to restrict the Florans to their home system (and maybe convince them to worship Kluex). The Florans, on the other hand, wish only to spread, multiply, and consume. With the Floran-Avian conflict raging, the Avians once again turn their eyes to the stars; they tire of the robots’ company. The remote radio telescopes are once more activated, and hundreds of automated probes are sent out in random directions in the hopes of finding someone - or anyone. So the Avians try to restrict the Florans and they have a little war going on, neither side really winning or losing, I guess, but they did not succeed in restricting the Florans, I think, since there's Floran villages everywhere etc.
Treeio Florstab disagrees. http://starbounder.org/An_Angry_Rant http://starbounder.org/Page_of_an_Exercise_Book http://starbounder.org/Charcoal_Writing http://starbounder.org/A_Printed_Page http://starbounder.org/From_the_journal_of_Professor_Irondome_1 http://starbounder.org/From_the_journal_of_Professor_Irondome_2 True the average Florans aren't full on retarded, and are actually quite cunning when it comes to hunting and combat, but they do not posses a vast amount of knowledge. It takes them "Years" to learn how to speak and or write properly, if we can take Treeio Florstab as an example. And even then he still was a shitty writer.
The conflict is after the unsuccesful blockade. On you original post, you mentioned the reason of the blockade was a lot of avians getting killed. I pointed that out, not the conflict after which gets both races peepz getting maimed and killed and... you get the idea. It's obvious the blockade was unsuccessful, as there's a FTL jump. Maybe it's concerning how many florans where in that ship to spread in big numbers (we have no idea the size of the ship and how many florans where in it), but that's another story which we can't really touch. After that... florans, florans everywhere! Like the rest of races.
What i imagine Floran society is like: Hunters: Get food for the tribe, track enemies and hunt them down (killing them, duh). Gatherer's: they travel the galaxy/planet looking for interesting technology that they can reverse engineer to make better weapons, armour, and even spacetravelling tech. Wisemen: the smart, intelligent Florans, who are capable of reverse engineering technologies gathered by the gatherers. Sentinels, Cannibals, ... Regular footsoldiers. Bonesmiths: they decorate and work with bones, they're the ones that create the weapons and armour. Shamans: they do the tribal&cultural stuff. Etc. What it boils down to is that the Lore states that the Florans, as a species, have a unique ability to reverse engineer tech, i believe that this is probably limited to the Wisemen, and that other Florans are supposed to keep an eye out for any interesting tech and bring it to the Wisemen so they can screw around with it.
*cracks knuckles* Prepare for alot of misremembered bits of real lore combined with head canon, and something I probably had a dream about but insists is fact. Okay, as far as reverse-engineering tech. This isn't some super-power, it's something that's happened in the real-world past. The Japanese buying firearms from Westerners, and then begin making their own versions. ((I think this was in 1989, but I'm bad with dates)) All it takes is the patience and knowledge to do it right. ((for wrong, see; story of a tribe attempting to make a cannon out of a log)) Okay, so, the knowledge needs to come from somewhere, somewhere that the Florans clearly don't possess on an individual basis. ((Unless you could go to a carshop right now and build an engine without any input or former knowledge on what's what)) And here's where I lose everyone going off the deep end; I remember a lore-piece on when Florans go to sleep inside their pods, they "dream" these piles of disjointed memories. So, possibly, they're both receiving others' memories, and sending their own out. "Does Floran remember, or does Floran forget?" I'm running the rest hinging on their sharing knowledge, memories, feelings, and events all together, possibly even deceased Florans' memories (there was a bit on marching on the Hyotl Homeworld under a forgotten warlords' banner, seemingly very long ago). Namely; they are not actually learning this information; it's just a flash-image of what was happening. A single frame of a larger movie. "Does Floran remember, or does Floran forget?" Okay, so; they have these subconsciously stored memories of fighting, killing, and what? Reverse-Engineering. Deeper into the Rabbit Hole; Technological advancement is exponential; everytime we build a house, we don't need to reinvent the hammer. That previous advancement is at our disposal. I'm going out on a limb and saying the same is true for Florans, but much faster than the meat races, thanks to this shared information pool. While a Floran may not realize it, he has at his disposal, generations of his ancestors fiddling with technology at his disposal. Sit down and ask him how an FTL engine works, and he'll stab you for talking too much. But plop an engine in front of that same Floran, and that information doesn't "flood" in, but he begins to quickly realize what each part does, and how the thing works. ((He may not know the true science behind it, but he knows it's function and how to operate it. See; Florans leveling an insane amount of a planet's surface by entering FTL within the atmosphere)) So, that's the amazing reverse-engineering facet; one Floran has the entire races' knowledge pool locked away until needed. ((storing it in such a way is likely the same why human brains categorize everything; you don't remember the red Subaru with the soccer mom and two kids heading south on I-95. You remember a red car, and maybe a woman. This is to save on space, so our brains don't need to be the size of that Subaru to store everything from a single day. Now extend that day to several million lifetimes, and that's why the memories and knowledge is dormant, i.e. they don't remember the red car until some stimuli drudges that knowledge to the surface)) Wrap Up, If you made it this far, here's where I lose you; I'm largely guessing at theories at this point but; I think it's likely this shared-dreaming isn't a universe spanning thing, but limited by community-to-community. ((There needs to be the pod-connection; unless the pods can send an FTL signal of memories to other pods galaxies apart? Ehh.)) Hence why some Florans are extremely tribal and violent even to outsider Floran; nothing in their pool of knowledge says to trust this other thing, that the only option is kill. ((i.e. our ancestors; if someone from outside the tribe appeared, you killed them to protect the tribe. It took us a while to figure out cooperation on a grand scale.)) But, each Floran can carry other tribes' knowledge pool from their parent's tribe and all it's members and their parents, etc. etc., so newer communities aren't starting from scratch, necessarily. But here's the kicker; we all know the PC Florans are outsiders for thinking that maybe stabbing the meat-people is the best use for their time. . . Maybe learn from them and cooperate? What if these Florans were born in some of the larger, older communities? Ones with the most advanced memory-knowledge pools? Kinda like social evolution mentioned above; learning cooperation for greater results. Maybe one day, Florans everywhere won't want to eat and kill everyone else? It's like the real world; violence is a thing that just peters off, steadily and surely going out of style as society advances. ((In real life, we're living in the most peaceful period in mankinds history, and it's just getting better.)) TLDR; Florans evolve mentally and socially at an extremely fast rate because of some crap I made up.
What I imagine Floran society is like: Hunters: SSSTABSSS! Gatherer's: SSSTABSSS! Wisemen: SSSTABBED MANY THINGSS KNOW MUCH ABOUT SSTABBING. Sentinels, Cannibals, ... Regular footsoldiers. WHAT ISS CANABIL? WHAT ISS SSENTINIL? SSSOUNDS DUMB. SSSHOULD SSSTAB. Bonesmiths: ALL FLORANSS MAKE SSSTUFF WITH BONESS! SSHOW FLORAN BESSST KILLSSS! Shamans: GET DRYSSSAP FROM. MAKE FLORAN SSSTRONG. ALSSO LIKESS SSTAB! FLORAN GET BETTER SSSTUFF FROM KILLSS! FLORAN USSE SSSPACE SSSHIP TO FIND BESSST KILL IN UNIVERSSSSE! MAKE BESSST FLORAN!
I am a.) Uncertain I have the stamina to survive such a long, derailed post from my original point, waking up as I have (you see, it is allergy season, and I seem to be metamorphosing by all the snot on me when I woke up), but will try and b.) honored that I have so angered every Floran player ever (except maybe Wreth?) c.) I apologize for insulting your arbitrary authority to decide what is and isn't balanced, and what is and isn't canon biology among the races. Oh. I see. I see. Mmmmmhm. You're arguing 'balance'. From what I understand, Florans AREN'T balanced, because half of everyone plays Florans as either physically superior in every way, or super scientists/culturals (because why play the race you picked?) Some of them might as well be Humans at times (there's a similar thing that happens with Glitch and Avians. Hard to say with Hylotl, because so little lore.) Well it's irrelevant. I'm not arguing balance. I'm arguing abuse. And abuse is the issue. A Floran can lose an arm as things have been happening, and be better the next day. A Floran can lose the lower half of their body. And be fine in a week. This goes beyond the abuses of medical RP that are prevalent enough to probably call for some intervention. Whereas a Human who loses their arm is forced to get a new one, or live without. Which generally has its own abuses. But the extents to which "regeneration" have been used, are just as, if not more excessively abused. I appreciate the amazingly rant, lacking in concise information or formatting, however, it has done very little to change my stance. I do not see Florans as balanced and I do not see them using "regeneration" as it should be.
Ach, jeesh. If you want a point taken seriously, then how about not doing this? Name-dropping people who's RP you don't like is just poor-form; if they're characters that absolutely bother the piss out of you, talk to the player about it, don't publicly shame them in a thread that's supposed to be about Floran lore. This bit grinded my gears too; If that's the case, how is it any less your fault than Flora's? Just. . . I was having fun, dammit, lore-exploring. And then forum-drama busted in. I can say, from personal experience; I know very few, if any player, that will take a character seriously based on their race, they base it off the player behind the character. "Race Balance" for Roleplay is a stab idea and you should feel stab; it's about the story, not winning.
You can't base intelligence on knowledge. You said florans are basically ''retarded'' but all your evidence for this is their lack of knowledge. Wisdom and knowledge are two very different sides of intelligence. Florans excel in the former.
Wisdom and intelligence are separate. Wisdom is not a subset or intelligence, rather they are two different things. It is absolutely different being worldly than it is being knowledgeable.
