Floran: Bio-forging ; what is it and how it works.

I'll respond to the TLDR for sake of ease.

But if every tribe has a special shaman, what's the difference? In the end, the tribe will still end up with bioforged weapons. Sure, it diverges a little from Wreth shenanigans and growing guns on the spot, but not very much.

ok

I don't understand why this is that necessary but I guess it'll help them hunt.

Florans living up to a thousand years "but most dying before twenty" is just... dumb. I don't know why you would say this. Why do Florans need to be even more of special snowflake overpowered messes. Don't do this. It's shit.

uh
for what purpose
isn't this a thread about fucking bioforging

Like, you say "better ranged combat! better melee! better sneaking!" without any indication what that means. Adding shitty OVERPOWERED Floran mechanics doesn't arbitrarily improve combat roleplay just in of itself, you have to explain why it would do so. And the few arguments you HAVE used haven't convinced me. You JUST said it's OVERPOWERED. How can you even argue for yourself when you blatantly admit that it's bad?

Bioforging gets crazy and shitty when you get to advanced technology like ACID GRENADE LAUNCHERS and FIREARMS. I don't think--

HOW??!?!??!?!??!? How would a ship be made entirely out of plant matter and bioforging? If we're willing to do that, where does the line end? If you're willing to make engines and airtight compartments out of PLANTS, what the fuck is stopping you from making fully-functioning guns? HGRAUUGHHGH

This just... harkens back to the old days when bioforging was cancer. And I wasn't around enough, so take what I say with a grain of salt, but I don't think we want those old days again, and this looks pretty fucking similar. Just IMHO.

I know you're an OE person who doesn't want their speshul floran communnityy to lose some of its powers, but this is a different server, and not all of the stuff is going to make it through.

Just my 2c

 

I agree 100% with zkkzz on all of his points. Especially it suddenly being introduced that they can live for a thousand years.

 

DeltaV-Today at 9:30 AM
i already debated how from a scientific standpoint bioforging makes no sense at all this time yesterday
anyone who only has spears sucks at range

DeltaV-Today at 9:30 AM
that's why they make ranged weapons
you think the concept of something that fires a projectile a long distance is something that a floran couldn't figure out?
zkkzz-Today at 9:30 AM
bio forging makes zero scientific sense and only exists so that florans can be more powerful

Recluse-Today at 9:31 AM
fantasy metals make zero scientifis sense and only exists so that races can be more powerful


^^^I'm glad you demonstrate 0 knowledge for Antares community or lore by claiming that there are still fantasy metals (beyond Durasteel) in use and that they exist to make races more powerful



Recluse-Today at 9:33 AM
in OE lore, the Hylotls used chemical warfare against the Florans and still lost.


^^^This isn't OE anymore and frankly that sounds retarded.

 

More discussion in chat I want to bring up here.

You have no scientific basis. You pretend that you do but as we start discussing it's clear that bioforging is just space magic with bells and whistles. A pitcher plant producing hydrochloric acid makes zero sense. It'd be nice if you admitted that it is just space magic so we can discuss whether or not it's good for the server instead of whether or not it's realistic. Because it's not, IMHO.

 

DeltaV-Today at 10:20 AM
anyways i've gtg so i'll wrap up my arguments. Bioforging is bad because it doesn't make sense from a scientific standpoint and unnecessary because florans aren't some magical separate thing from the rest of the galaxy that can't figure out how to use guns. Huge lifespans are bad because they don't make sense from a scientific stand point and unnecessary because they add nothing besides the opportunity to make 999-year-old special snowflakes. In short, florans don't get to be special because they're florans. They still should have to obey the basic rules of science.



^^^Just posting snippets from chat so they're not removed. I don't fully agree with this one because already some races defy science.

 

Just responding to tl;dr as well, main post was a bit too long for me to really put my full, undivided attention on to really absorb it. My bad.

1. Sure, I agree with that. It'd take time to understand how to do this.

2. I guess? Is that 60 Miles? Or 60 Meters? I'm gonna assume meters, because miles doesn't fit the bill at all. That's fine, I guess.

3. That's way longer than any race, and rooting sounds rather un-floran like. Even Novakids don't live that long, I believe. Lower their life expectancy, imo. Next, they're living beings of plant, so what's prompting them to grow into trees? Isn't that a devolution? If anything, they'd keel over and die like all the rest of the races, considering there really isn't anything that would logically make them 'root', in my opinion.

4. This sounds like something you'd write for a singular character. Not something that needs to be included for regular floran lore, really. There's really no benefit/hindrance to having them, so it's not something that's needed in lore.

5. We are in an alien setting, sure, but we do hold a degree of realism to our RP. That's important. So long as you sufficiently explain how the bio forged stuff they make works, then it's probably okay. But with the ship thing, that's a certain no-go. They'd need to salvage parts from an actual ship and probably use the framework of a ship at least to make an actual bio forged ship. So no full plant ships imo, they need actual spaceship parts for that.

This was a weak response, but whatever. Have it.

 

Yah, and you pretty much said what I'd already said as well ...

 

A for affert, haplap. good don e

 

Yeah, no this is true.
That's canon.

 

Okay, first off, no florans are making any ships from just biotic materials, okay? Like I'm sorry, spaceships need propulsion, fuel, oxygen generation, computer systems, the ability to be equipped with systems such as a an ftl drive and propulsion control, among other things.

This wouldn't work because well, let's go over the list:

Propulsion, the only known propulsion techniques that plants can naturally produce are spore plumes which spurt pressurized spores and air when their sensory organs are triggered. Past that, you MIGHT be able to get away with potential and kinetic energy, like producing a temporary helicopter via twisting a set of vines in a spring set up enough that releasing them would provide lift.

Fuel, plants require several of a few types of fuel to perform, being that this space ship is a plant-based organism. Plants require oxygen, carbon dioxide, water, nutrients, and sunlight, among other things. In space there is none of this except for sunlight, so fueling such a large and need-be capable vessel would be near impossible without towing GIANT TANKS of water, food, oxygen and carbon dioxide.

Oxygen Generation, Your florans need to breath, whether it be oxygen or carbon dioxide, they need to breath, your ship would have to produce both of these things at a VERY VERY VERY PRECISE rate, and you would somehow have to insulate the exterior, because the plant-based ship would just exert all of this stuff to the exterior and float off into space. In addition to this, even if you say, trapped a bubble of planetary air inside this vessel, your space-ship would have to be completely insulated letting off no air and also you wouldn't be able to go on for long because even as a floran you don't produce the same amount of oxygen as carbon dioxide, so the levels in the air would be completely off.

Computer Systems, No, your floran cannot mind control a ship, and no you cannot augment a completely plant based organism with a mechanical system, especially one as high tech as a 4th dimensional flight computer. So, no.

Mechanical Equipment, This function is nessicary because planetary systems are so far apart that without an ftl drive or a high speed thruster system, you'd be coasting through space over a period of years!!! In many scenarios, entire settlements might be vacant and abandoned by the time your floran horde on board this ship would even reach them, because it'd take that long(IF YOU EVEN GOT PROPULSION ENOUGH TO GO AT A DECENT SPEED(USING PLANTS!!!)) And as I said before, plant matter cannot be controlled by or united to a mechanical system, so nah.

On terms of weaponry and mechanical purposed biotech

So, let's say you want to reverse engineer a weapon, or incorperate maybe metal or a non-plant material into your plant based weaponry, well you can ONLY GROW PLANTS AROUND IT, it will not become part of your weapon, only a non-compatible carry-on which can serve a purpose, but never truly be part of your weapon.

Past this, florans aren't magical super beings, in the most radical of scenarios and lore, florans have a sort of "psychological empathy" to lesser mentally dominant plants, like many fictional races across many games and settings, they would have a purposed psychological ability, but not extend to other things like making super psy blasts or stuff like that. So, they would be able to influence and emphasize with plants to make them grow a certain way. Another explanation is special pollen or pheromones which are used to grow plants in a special way instead of the whole mind thing.

This applies to biotech making because a floran could then construct and grow intriquite shells for guns like needlers, which would then use pressurized air or even a spore explosion to launch the projectiles out. A limit to this sort of idea is, a plant has to be able to be made into it, which means moving mechanical parts would be complicated to naturally grow, in addition, your floran would have to physically study the art of manipulating plants and such. A new sapling or retarded hunter won't be able to bend plants and grow giant trees, they'd have to actually learn these things.

Let's get past need for weapons though, it's all about the shooty things aint it? Biotech could be illustrated in the event of creating a crane, using physical properties to allow a floran to easily lift heavy objects for traps or transport. Also creating slingshot sleds which are specially made for low friction on a jungle/rainforest floor. Creating a transparent bio-glass is also something that has been done in current nature and could be done through bio-tech. This could help with structure construction and lights and stuff have already been talked about. Lights work via phosphorous reacting and creating a natural glow. In the real world, plant lights would be multi colored and be very unsual compared to what we have in game.

I believe bio-tech itself has no limits, but at the same time it does, like you can make anything a plant could be formed into, and even perform things like increasing the density of plant-stone or plant-stone like material and ultimately making cheaper armor than metal that has somewhat the same strength with some benefits and consequences. You can create structures and vehicles which rely on potential energy in the form of tension and even gliders and sleds. But, at the same time, you will not be making a giant combine harvester, slaughtering entire worlds. You will not be making giant space ships that are instant healing and undefeatable. You will not be controlling giant thorny vines like a fantasy rpg game that entangle enemies and rip them to pieces, any plant control would be definitely slow and really with most constructions, the bigger it is, the harder and slower it is to produce, using more energy, resources, and generally bodily power.

I'm sure I'm leaving out things here, I'm sure I could keep ranting about why things wouldn't work, and what would, but I can't think of anything because I'm kinda lazy atm, so meh c:

 

If you look at the sprite for the plant control panel, it's literally 2 buttons, which could easily just be pressure kept lever operated switches, the in game wiring isn't canon at all, it's simple an easy-do linking apparatus.
I never said vehicles made from plants wouldn't be living organisms
All plant cells need oxygen to live, because without oxygen they can't perform aerobic respiration (respiration is the process of breaking down food to get energy). Of course you probably know that when plants perform photosynthesis, they combine water, carbon dioxide, and the sun's energy to produce sugar and oxygen. They use the oxygen produced and oxygen collected from between dirt particles in the roots to help with burning the sugar to collect the energy to live.
Yes, I agree with the ideas behind using waste gasses and solar sails, but in realistic roleplay, no one wants to wait years to travel lightyears away to another solar system.
Plants would not be able to break down erchius fuel, natural plant life does not run on fossil fuels, plants either produce their own food, or carnivorous plants break down insects, lizards, frogs, and other prey for energy. Erchius fuel is a very radical and unpredictable substance as well, which would probably be incapatible with plant life.
In terms of controlling plants and how they grow, I leave that to khaltor and those who actually decide how things work on antares.

 

It all depends on how far you want to take it.
You could create a fusion of ship parts and highly genetically altered super plants to create hybrid ships, part biotic and part mechanical, and then give a somewhat vague explanation as to how it would function. (I tried that in the past.)
I also think this is what CF initially had in mind, but later they may have changed their mind and chose to go with the overgrown, stolen Apex ship instead.

However, even it seems somewhat plausible, general consensus is that we ought /not/ to do that.
Florans, Novakid and starbound in general require a certain amount of suspension of disbelief, however bio-ships, like Zerg Overlords and Tyranid Hivefleets are generally viewed as overkill.

On the topic of plant-based machinery, that could work, as it would most likely just mimick the structure of normal machines, with conductive vines fulfilling the same functions as wiring, to connect with normal machines. I just don't think it'd be worth the effort if you'd try to create any kind of more complicated machinery. (especially considering it'd be a pain in the ass to replicate microchips, perhaps even impossible)

Tl;dr:
Static things like furniture = ok.
Weapons, bio-forged as a hybrid between plant material and conventional materials. = ok.
Spaceships = not ok, maybe overgrown on the inside but no bio-ships, and perhaps dead plant matter on the outside.
Poison-Ivy-esque real time plant mobility manipulation/making things grow so fast that you can "see" it, is a big no-no. No vine tentacle rape bullshit.