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Technology A Framework for Laser Weaponry

Discussion in 'Unofficial Lore Discussion' started by November, Dec 4, 2016.

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  1. November

    November Previously Sermane
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    Laser Weaponry

    Lasers damage materials by heating them until they disintegrate. For typical laser weaponry each “shot” is able to burn through 4cm of bare flesh, 2cm of unresistant material (leather, dry wood, basic metals), .5cm of naturally resistant materials (mirrored surfaces, reflective materials, ceramics, heat resistant objects), and .1cm of specialised resistant materials (specifically anti-laser armouring).

    In order to produce such a powerful laser, the weapons require ammunition of a sort. Instead of bullets, you reload a laser weapon with a fresh battery. Shots per reload are similar to ballistic weapons of the same size. The exception are Avian crystal weapons, which instead are limited due to heat buildup. It can be assumed that they can make twice as many shots before needing a cool down period of 10+ seconds (scaling with the size of the weapon).

    Some laser weapons can switch from pulse to beam mode to be used more like a cutting tool. Their range drastically decreases (typically within five feet), but allows the wielder to penetrate up to 10 times the values listed above over one second (so for example you could make a 4cm line through a 10cm think wall of flesh over 1 second). Ammo is also generally consumed at one shot per second while in beam mode.

    Above all, remember that these are guidelines. This is what normal looks like, and it is possible to deviate from it. If you want to create a more specialised laser weapon, take a look into the spoiler below to understand the mechanics.

    Over the course of 400 years, the free-electron laser (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-electron_laser) has been advanced to the point that it is viable in handheld weaponry. Advancements in battery capacity, mirroring technology, high power lenses, and computing have all made this possible.

    The laser is produced as such:
    1. An electron injector injects a pulse of free electrons into the particle accelerator.

    2. The particle accelerator accelerates the electrons to near the speed of light (300,000 km/s)

    3. The electrons move through the undulator or wiggler, which is a series of magnets with alternating north-south directions.

    4. Inside the wiggler, the electrons oscillate back and forth. With each bend, they emit light of a specific wavelength.

    5. The spacing of the magnets within the wiggler controls the wavelength of emitted light. So, the FEL laser can be tuned by changing the magnet spacing.

    6. The light is transferred into a resonance cavity where the power is amplified.

    7. The laser is then projected through the exit lenses.
    During this process, a computer makes three very important calculations. First, a scan of the target is made using a separate device that determines its reflective properties. The computer can then select the best wavelength for the target. Second, it determines the distance from the weapon to the target and moves the lenses to correctly set the focal point. Finally, the computer locks onto the target, allowing it to make small adjustments to ensure the pulses land in the same place.

    This all occurs in fractions of a second, as the laser fires using very rapid pulses instead of one concentrated beam. The targeting computer makes sure that these pulses all land in the same location on a moving object. It will not assist in the initial aim, it only ensures that whatever you hit gets the full power of the lasers.

    Laser weapons still require a form of ammunition. Both a battery and electron chamber are required for operation of the weapon. Typical laser ammunition combine these two into one for ease of use, and many companies choose to emulate the reloading mechanics of ballistic weapons for their laser variants. These are relatively expensive to produce, costing approximately (INSERT PRICE HERE) for each reload.

    The exception to these rules are Avian crystal based weapons. Acting as the power supply, the only additional components are the lenses. It is possible to increase the power of current Avian weaponry through the introduction of resonance cavities and other laser amplification method, though these have yet to be implemented by Avian arms producers. The three step computer system is an advancement that has been adapted, however.

    12/10/16 Edit: Added beam functionality.

    -------------------------

    There is a lot more that could go into this (how exactly the batteries have been advanced, how vacuum is maintained, etc), but I wanted to leave room in the advanced section for people to do their own research. Overall I think that this satisfies people's urge for simplicity while still opening up the possibility of invention. If you don't want to put in the work and do extra research, stick to the basics above. If you instead enjoy delving into the science and exploring how to make it actually work, well that's the price for making cool new shiny things.

    Comments and critiques welcome, especially when it comes to pricing.
     
    #1 November, Dec 4, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 10, 2016
  2. Rayne

    Rayne New Member

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    I really like the idea. When it comes to pricing i would say that they should be a lot more expensive than conventional weapons (maybe 2 or 3 times?) since i imagine they are harder and more expensive to produce.
     
  3. Thewaltham

    Thewaltham New Member

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    I also like the idea but only burning through 4cm of flesh seems very underpowered compared to ballistics, unless these laser weapons have the effect of instantly vaporising liquids in the target's body causing a small explosion like the lasguns of warhammer 40k. Essentially, with such little penetration and seemingly minimal damage output, they don't seem to be viable weapons compared to ballistics.

    Personally, I'd have the effect be absolutely devastating against unarmoured or lightly armoured targets, and being a laser it would be accurate enough to shoot at weakpoints in armour, or gaps in more improvised protection such as what tribal Florans would be sporting. As for pricing, I'd say two times as much as a ballistic weapon of the same sort of "class".
     
  4. November

    November Previously Sermane
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    Well to start, any gun is really only as accurate as the person firing it. If whatever in the armour isn't moving, and isn't also trying to kill you then of course it's possible, but that sort of precision is more chance than skill in a firefight.

    The penetration values I went back and forth on for a while. The breakpoint I was mostly looking at was an average of 5cm distance from chest to heart. 4cm should be able to penetrate lung and GI tract pretty regularly (less sure on GI because idk bipedal anatomy that well). You have to remember that bullets generally kill through exsanguination. Though a weaponised laser wouldn't totally cauterise a wound (it would cover it a little, but moving around like in idiot would 'pop' any covering from the heat, bringing them to bleed), it isn't nearly as effective at it just due to it's nature and that's okay.

    In my opinion, bullets are going to have the monopoly on personal defense weaponry. They have one job and they do it well. Lasers on the other hand have a lot more utility. -it was at this point in typing that I had a realisation-

    I never really specified a diameter for the wounds from the laser, and I realised I was imagine something much larger than you'd generally consider. I think this is something that'd scale with the size of the weapon, but I was thinking around 1cm of diameter to the hole. It sounds insignificant, but I think that's definitely enough to make someone's body pretty sad.

    Back to the role of lasers. If we think beyond the personal defense role (even though it's likely one of the most common to come up on the server) and towards actual military use, then I think the utility begins to shine. A group of all lasermen might be fairly effective in the right setting, but I think mixed arms is where they'd really shine. Got dudes behind a wall? Go laser it. People hiding in trees? Laser down some limbs. Even just putting holes in cover can force someone out a position that bullets would never touch them in.

    A laser is going to hurt pretty much anything you point it at, given it isn't designed specifically to stop them. Bullets aren't as lucky. Ballistics care about what angle you strike things at, especially something hard like most metals. Laser don't care, laser burn right through the barrel of that gun you hit.

    This got sort of long, but I just wanted to throw some of what I was thinking out there and see if you'd already thought about it and discounted it or something. Want to be sure I'm not missing anything.

    --

    And to address both comments on pricing, that seems about right. Ammunition is another cost though, but doubling that would probably work as well. It definitely would require a real manufacturer, unlike guns and ammo which pretty much anyone can make if they have the equipment.
     
  5. Thewaltham

    Thewaltham New Member

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    Well, the laser packs could likely be recharged, so, that would offset the ammunition cost somewhat. However, I'd still make the laser more powerful against unarmoured targets. Essentially, being absolutely devastating and blowing huge chunks out of them. Also, with the breaking through cover thing, unless you had A LOT of them, it's not going to do much. 2cm of cover? A bullet is just going to go through that. Even if the lasers were massed, it would be generally more effective to use ballistics as the rounds would chew through concrete much quicker. The penetration power of even today's ballistics is immense, hell, one of the reasons the UK stopped the using 7.62 SLR (otherwise known as the FAL, or the L1A1 self loading rifle) was that in urban conflicts it had a habit of punching clean through a brick building, and then nailing civilians on the other side.

    Also, angling will effect lasers, as angled armour essentially means you have more armour to get through in a straight line, something lasers most certainly travel in. 100mm of armour angled at sixty degrees would mean that a projectile or beam would have to get through 200mm of material in order to penetrate.

    These still need a big ol' buff to be a viable weapon, hell, I'd even argue that there could be something like them being outlawed in some military organisations (the Hylotl probably, although, I'd imagine against Florans they wouldn't care) for the wounds they leave being just too horrific. A massive amount of heat, concentrated like that? It would instantly flash boil the liquids in the target's body, causing what's essentially a super gory explosion, likely blasting a chunk the size of a pineapple out of someone. Essentially a scaled down version of this effect.






    Like an egg in a microwave.
     
  6. November

    November Previously Sermane
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    Okay, first on lasers and flash vaporisation. I'm not a physics expert by any extent, but the short of it is that I don't think the reaction is nearly as explosive as you expect. If you want the laser to cause instantaneous perforations (in other words, put a hole in someone when you pull the trigger) then what you're doing is shooting so much energy at the object that the molecules fall apart (disintegration). Alternatively you could try and burn your way through with a lower energy laser, which would cause liquids to boil and expand at the surface of what you are hitting (vaporisation).
    The research I'm looking is leaning away from lasers being able to make someone explode in any way, the most you'd get is the steam causing a larger area to be melted. The fact that there's an open hole combined with the way lasers apply energy makes it seem to me like there wouldn't be enough pressure to be terribly significant.

    You have good points on the cover penetration. I could see doubling the values, or maybe 1.5x. Would have to run through some scenarios just the see how it plays out, but my brain doesn't want to do that atm for some reason.
     
  7. Thewaltham

    Thewaltham New Member

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    Put an egg in a microwave if you want to see flash vaporisation in action. Or don't. It's a big mess. And yes, there will be a hole but what you also have to remember is that the hole will be surrounded by cauterised toughened flesh, sealing it. Additionally flash vaporisation is instant, meaning an instant expansion of gas. Hole or no hole, that's a LOT of energy rushing through a small hole, which would case a very devastating widening effect, blowing a good chunk out of a target. Also, another thing... This sort of effect would make the lasers an actually useful, and horrifying weapon, making them a good alternative to ballistics which even today, are VERY powerful. In the future? They would be even more deadly with improved propellants, materials and the rounds themselves being more advanced not to mention gauss weaponry, which will most likely be a thing.
     
  8. November

    November Previously Sermane
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    I don't imagine laser weaponry ever becoming a thing due to issues with debris on the lens, but I'm sort of looking past it atm.

    Unfortunately as I do more and more research, I'm standing further on flash vaporisation not being a thing. It's hard to come up with useful language since vaporise, disintigrate, and etc all sort of blur together, but I'll try to explain what I'm looking at in the context of surgery.

    Low powered lasers cauterise. The laser heats up the point it contacts, enough to provide the desired effect but not vaporise. This is used in surgical lasers. The effect here are burns as a result of laser contact. Melting is the key word.

    Medium powered lasers vaporise. The laser hears up the point it contacts enough to cause a phase transition of materials in the target (usually liquids) to vapor. This is also used in surgical lasers as the "high" setting, to cut soft tissue. The effect here are burns from the laser and vapor, as well as general vaporisation (flash or not) of materials causing them to not be there anymore. Vaporising is the key word.

    High powered lasers ionise. The energy from the laser excites the target so much that it is transitioned to a plasma. This image covers the process pretty well:

    [​IMG]

    as well as:

    [​IMG]

    These also illustrate why pulsed lasers are a necessity. The tiny bit of time between pulses allow the material to be ejected without wasting more laser on it. There is no doubt that this ejected material is very hot, but it is kept from transferring this heat both by the properties of the laser as well as the speed at which it escapes.

    The microwaved egg works because of two key points. First is that it's sealed, which means that shattering is the path of least resistance, poke a hole in the top of that egg and it is much less inclined to shatter. Next is that the microwave is penetrating deep into the egg, due to the properties of the microwave itself. Visible light does not penetrate nearly as far, and this is where what sort of laser is being used matters immensely. I'm not certain what would be appropriate for these lasers because what you're looking for is a good ratio of depth to energy absorbed (the deeper a substance lets the wave penetrate, the more you spread your energy payload). It's nearly impossible for us to determine that, which is why I copped out and used the concept of a variable wavelength laser device.

    Now with the laser flash ionising that much material, there will be expansion yes, but I believe it's not nearly enough for it to be of much consequence. There's simply too many places of lower resistance that the most you might get is some minor internal bleeding in the surround tissue...and even that I'm still skeptical of.